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Minutes for 29th March, as always, questions, comments etc are welcome!


  • Ben Evans
  • Trisha Gee
  • James Gough
  • Richard Warburton

We voted no to JSR 357, one of the spec leads will be investigating the core concepts of this JSR in an open source, community setting and then may reinvestigate standardisation after the issues that we pointed out are corrected.
Richard Warburton to writeup why we voted no.

With several committee members presently expanding their families we’re not as numerically strong as we were late last year.
James Gough to investigate the situation.

Oracle Meeting
We’re meeting Cecilia Borg, from Oracle, on 17th April in order to represent community interests.
Ben Evans to book a table for this.

EC Relations
We should invite Scot Baldry to a future JCP Committee meeting in order to facility relations with other non-vendor EC memembers.
Ben Evans to talk to Scot about when he’s free.

RI Licensing Issue
We’re unsure as to whether OCSL Appendix D licensing rules apply to open source projects.
Ben Evans to confirm with Oracle as to the status of this.

Trello Review
Richard Warburton to adopt JSR 308 and try to encourage user participation.
Richard Warburton to write up a blog post on why JSR 348 is an improvement.

LJC should run monthly adopt an openjdk hackdays, and needs more instructor level people in order to be able to achieve ethis.
Ben Evans to talk to community contacts about locations.
Instructors to meet and skill-up on 16th April.
Next hackday scheduled for 23rd April.

Minutes for Dec 6th, as always, questions, comments etc are welcome!


  • Ben Evans
  • Trisha Gee
  • Somay Nakhal
  • Richard Warburton


  • JCP. next meeting needs to be scheduled by 7th of march
  • TG & RW to produce a layman’s interpretation of JSR 348
  • We’re still looking for a good solution to track the timeline of JSRs.  We’ve created a new Trello board with the JSRs that are currently active and the stages they are in.
  • We need to come up with a list of standard things to do for JSRs at specific stages – e.g. kick off Adopt a JSR; request feedback from the community on using it, etc.
  • All: edit JSRs on trello to point to the relevant places
  • RW to fix labelling on the JSR Trello
  • Trish gave an update on JSR 343 – JMS 2.0
  • JSR 354 – Currency – adopted by Ben
  • JSR 353 – JSON – adopted by Somay
  • RW gave an update on JSR 310 – date/time

Hi all,

Minutes for 3rd Jan 2012, as always, questions, comments etc are welcome!


  • Ben Evans
  • Martijn Verburg
  • Michael Barker
  • Somay Nakhal
  • Richard Warburton


  • JSR-331 – Concerns were addressed, EG is more diverse
  • Voting record on was updated by MB
  • BE Waiting for Spec lead of 351 to set up webinar
  • TG has set up a shared calendar for early JSR reviews and dissemination of our reviews
  • Get a volunteer to introduce Raoul-Gabriel Urma to the right people in the OpenJDK for his ‘Relationships in Java’ prototype or more likely, set-up a project so people can take a look (via patches) (MB/MV)
  • JSR 344: JavaServer Faces 2.2 – Early Draft Review – (Committee to seek volunteers)
  • JSR 339: Java API for RESTful Web Services – Early Draft Review – MV found an Adopt a JSR Lead
  • JSR 346: Contexts and Dependency Injection for Java EE 1.1 – Early Draft Review – (Committee to seek volunteers)
  • JSR 342: Java EE 7 – (BE to investigate EG composition further, raise at F2F in Jan)
  • Jigsaw: – Committee to investigate progress of JEP (MV to chase Neil Bartlett / Tim Ellison)
  • Adopt a JSR materials for JUGs:
    1- MV created the overview presentation. 5 minutes on what the JSR is about and what it means for the regular developer
    2- Technical deep dive – 10-60 minutes on how to use the result of the JSR, implementation details, best practices… All a developer needs to get from “Haven’t heard about” to “Almost Guru” (MV/JG)
  • MB to lead OpenJDK Adoption and set up a monthly regular session – find a venue via BC
  • MV to investigate with Oracle about access to statistical analysis tools.
  • MV to ask JUG leaders list to assist with further JSRs
  • F2F – Ben has raised discussing all active JSRs for Agenda
Martijn (On behalf of the LJC JCP Committee)


  • Richard Warburton
  • Somay Nakhal
  • Ben Evans
  • James Gough
  • Martijn Verburg
  • Trish Gee
  • Mike Barker


  • Review TODOs from last meeting
  • JSR-331– Constraints Programming for Java – Proposed Final Draft. We have Openness and Transparency Concerns.
    • There’s one potential Adopt a JSR LJC member that we can use to look into this (Lanre)
  • JSR-333 – Content Repository API – Early Draft Review, last day of review: 30 October 2011.
  • JSR-351 – Identity.  As we have major concerns about the validity of this JSR we should discuss whether to get them in for a presentation.
    • Meta: Stimulating discussion about JSRs on the SE/EE list. e.g. we didn’t publicise our concerns about JSR 351 on the SE/EE EC alias – and I think a lot of other members would have had more concerns if we’d spoken up on-list
  • Adopt a JSR program
    • Progress Reports on existing Adopted JSRs
    • Discussion on where we go next with this
    • Publicising the list of people who have joined the program back to the LJC (and beyond)
  • Adopt the OpenJDK program
  • Discuss candidates for the upcoming JCP elections
  • Other business


  • Issues from last meeting were reviewed
  • JSR-331 – BE to send to SE/EE list saying we’re going to vote no and here’s why. Before he does, check with Werner Kiel.
    • We need to list our criteria for voting on any JSR on the wiki (MB)
    • We need to update our voting record on (BE/MB)
  • Look into into 333 for our voting stance (MB)
  • Accept 351 invitation for webinar (BE)
    • solicit comments before the vote (BE to ask Patrick)
  • Launch Adopt a JSR by end of Oct (MV)
    • 350 report, new project, (SM will adopt a JSR)
    • Submit a BOF on JSR-310 at Open Conference (JG)
    • Find people to ‘Adopt the JMS 2.0 JSR’, (TG talk to BE)
  • Set up a JCP Committee voting poll (MV)
    • Post early endorsement of a candidate (BE/MV)
    • Promote this election (All of us)
  • Lead an ‘Adopt an OpenJDK’ (TBA)
    • Get a collection of LJC people to work on the build (MV)
    • Propose Oracle to allow JEPs without being a committer (MV/BE/TG/MB at Devoxx)
  • Next meeting to be scheduled for November, the week after Devoxx (BE/MV)
  • We need to have our contact details in a Shared Document (Everyone)
  • Martijn to buy the next lot of Wine (MV)
Martijn (On behalf of the LJC JCP Committee)

Attendees: Ben Evans, Martijn Verburg, James Gough, Richard Warburton, Mike Barker, Trisha Gee


  • JCP rep in Red Hat has changed, and Red Hat should be more engaged now
  • OSCON was awesome – hopefully it will prove to be a catalyst for improving relationships between various parties involved in the JCP.

General JSR points / Comms:

  • We need to communicate / explain the benefits of being on an Expert Group to our membership
  • When a person “adopts” a JSR, they should become the LJC official “ambassador” for that JSR.
  • Add page to LJC JUG site about the adopters of JSRs, so people’s names are on here.
  • We should publish (via e-mail?, via LJC JUG Wiki?) digested, developer-friendly versions of the JSRs, since the language can be a little impenetrable sometimes.  Going forward, ideally the person who adopts the JSR would do this, but probably for the near future people might be less likely to adopt unless they can read a friendly summary of what it is.
JSR 350
  • Container managed state – e.g. session state
  • Patrick Curran is sorting out some minor procedural issues around the license
  • It currently has an Expert Group which is still in formation – made up largely of vendors
  • We should encourage adoption from the LJC, to get real end users on the board. This is an area where our membership can add value.
  • Ben to explain current situation and canvas for possible EG members

JSR 310

  • New Date & Time
  • Is a good example of “adopt a JSR”
  • James is trying to take some ownership of the TCK for this JSR, and will mail the group in the near future and inquire for some feedback
  • Unit-style tests exist, but the TCK needs to be more acceptance-style tests.  There may be some re-use
  • We should evangelise this project to LJC to get help.  Could be a good entry point for people who want to get involved in open source etc
  • When we’ve got more information on what’s involved in building a TCK, and some good practice, we should document it somewhere (e.g. a wiki, the JUG page) so that other people can learn from the experience and add to it.

JSR 348

  • Changing the JSR process itself
  • This is a good area for more involvement, so we need to spark interest/conversation. Mike to take point – to explain
  1. Why should we care?
  2. What are the problems?
  3. Why is it trying to solve these things?
  • Raise the issue of language? – it’s difficult to get involved in the process when the language of the JSRs can be dry and un-engaging.  Program to write easy to understand summaries of JSRs should help
  • Clear consensus among the committee for a Yes vote and continued effort / participation in the EG

Attendees: Trisha Gee; Mike Barker; Barry Cranford; Martijn Verburg; Ben Evans; Simon Maple

As an overall note, we don’t assign action points to specific people in the meeting other than those whose names are mentioned above.  Rather than swamp ourselves with process, we’re feeling our way around to see what’s going to work best for us as a grassroots user organisation.

  1. We agreed that Barry would hold the physical paperwork at his company offices. This resolves point 11 of the last meeting.
  2. We agreed unanimously that James Gough would be added to the LJC/JCP committee.
  3. Patrick Curran, the chair of the JCP, will be visiting London on July 9th. We resolved to hold a social at Vinopolis, open to all LJC members, to meet Patrick. Trish to organize.
  4. Ben to blog about the inactive JSRs to see if any LJC members are interested in helping to get them going again – the start of an “adopt a JSR” program.
  5. Ben to post to list about bean validation 1.1 JSR and see if any LJC members would be a good for for the EG that Emmanuel Bernard (Red Hat) is putting together.
  6. We agreed unanimously that Trish should act as tertiary for the JCP Committee, and attend EC (and JSR 348 – meetings in the event than neither Ben nor Martijn is available.
  7. We  discussed the possibility of setting up a “community interest” JCP mailing list for JUG leaders – to try to reduce the possibility of swamping the current jug-leaders mailing list. It was felt that this was worth discussing further with Bruno Souza (SouJava) and other community EC members.
  8. We discussed which forthcoming standards the LJC may be able to contribute to technically (ie areas where we have members who could make a good contribution). The initial list of obvious areas is: Bean Validation, Modularity / Jigsaw, Lambda, JMS 2.0, Coin 8 and MLVM. Further discussion is needed to see how we can best help our members to get involved.
  9. It was noted that we need to tag JCP-related posts on the blog as a way of keeping track of our involvement in the JCP and open work threads – this will also provide a useful public record of our contribution.
  10. Ben to organize the next Committee Meeting in mid-July.

LJC members – this is a unique opportunity for you to get involved in helping guide the future of the Java ecosystem! Please contact me (Ben Evans – @kittylyst on twitter, or through my profile on the LJC site) and let’s talk!

Attendees: Trisha Gee; Mike Barker; Barry Cranford; Martijn Verburg; Ben Evans; Simon Maple

As an overall note, we didn’t assign action points to specific people in the meeting other than those whose names are mentioned above.  Rather than swamp ourselves with process, at the moment we’re feeling our way around to see what’s going to work best for us as a grassroots user organisation.

  1. The LJC will spin off a small group to handle JCP-related matters, so that we can keep it manageable but encourage a more active participation from members (i.e. more active than the associates group). This group will start off being those who attended this meeting, and will grow to include additional LJC members who have the time and interest to participate regularly.
  2. Members of the LJC JCP group are expected to turn up to all f2f meetings, and to be active and vocal participants of the group. This does represent a certain level of time commitment.
  3. Separate mailing list for LJC/JCP committee to be created (done!)
  4. We’ll send minutes of the JCP meetings to the new google group for the JCP committee.  A public summary will go into a monthly update blogpost (see next point)
  5. We (the LJC/JCP committee) will write blog posts about important events / topics related to what’s been going on in our JCP world. The blog posts will be pointed to via the usual channels (LJC mailing list, twitter etc).  We will also point the other Euro JUGs to these updates. At minimum, the summary of minutes will be posted – but there will be additional posts on topics of interest.
  6. If there’s an upcoming important topic to vote on, we will do lightning talks on the subjects at a suitable event so that we can inform the community about the issue and request feedback. Lightning talks will be delivered by a member of the JCP group.
  7. We will compile a list of open JSRs and encourage involvement from the LJC.  We should encourage people to “Adopt a JSR” – find out about it, present about it, get involved.  We should blog to suggest this, and we need to find ways to create a low barrier to entry for getting involved.
  8. Suggestion to do a session at the unconference on the JCP and our involvement
  9. Trish to prepare a lightning talk on the JCP and JSRs
  10. Mike to present a lightning talk on Project Coin
  11. ISSUE: If we have any physical paperwork from our involvement, where do we store it? Tabled for discussion at next meeting

LJC members – this is a rare chance for you to get involved in helping guide the future of the Java ecosystem! Please contact me (Ben Evans – @kittylyst on twitter, or through my profile on the LJC site) and I’ll get you started!

What is the LJC

The London Java Community (LJC) is a group of Java Enthusiasts who are interested in benefiting from shared knowledge in the industry. Through our forum and regular meetings you can keep in touch with the latest industry developments, learn new Java (& other JVM) technologies, meet other developers, discuss technical/non technical issues and network further throughout the Java Community.